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Sunday, August 21, 2005 

Limit vs NL Holdem

Chipper asked in a comment if I prefer Limit over NL since Limit is mostly what I play.

I wouldn't say I enjoy limit over NL. I actually enjoy all forms of poker - Omaha, 7stud, Razz. I find them all mentally challenging which is why i love poker (the money's good too though!).

There are a few reasons I play limit over NL. One is that it's where I started and there are a lot more good books on limit than NL. So it was much easier for me to learn the concepts. It is a much more mechanical game and after many books and reading hand analyses in forums I feel like I have a good knowledge of the game. I've played NL cash games and done ok but I'm still not confident in my game. I have played .05/.10 up to .5/1 NL and other than the extremely small stakes where everyone sucks anyway, I haven't felt comfortable with a big stack at risk. In limit, the worst I lose at any one time is a Big Bet. I may compound a few in one hand, but that's easily made back. I have found that I do well at limit and can be a consistent winner over the long term from .5/1 to the occasional 2/4 (i've done ok overall but lost a couple buyins back to back so stopped playing confidently and stopped). Now I have finally made the move to 1/2 and after I am confident I am a winning player I will make the jump to 2/4.

Going along with the "I only lose a Big Bet if I make a mistake" line - I sometimes have a hard time concentrating while playing. I always seem to be watching tv or surfing the web or whatever else and I make some mistakes because of this. I'd much rather make a mistake in Limit than NL :) When I do immerse myself in poker I do play better though.

Chipper mentioned in a blog entry that he didn't like Party because it was hard to bluff and too many players saw the flop. Those games on Party are the games I love. I love multiway pots (preferably no more than 4-5 people). I find it much easier to know when I don't have the best hand and can get away from it easier. I have learned when to push small pot equity edges to build the pot.

I have stepped up levels before at limit and gotten knocked back down after taking my shot because I was having problems in tight games reading single opponents who were extremely aggressive. I still have a problem with playing weak-tight sometimes in fear of losing money but I'm getting better. Short handed play has helped a little with that but I haven't played it a whole lot. The games where I have been winning big lately have been with 2 or 3 semi or very loose (and sometimes aggressive) players at the table. Table selection is key. As I move up and find tighter tables I am still learning the nuances but so far so good.

I enjoy NL tournaments because they have a fixed buyin and then its just play your game and don't worry about losing money. I do fairly ok in tournaments and want to play more MTTs but its hard to commit the 4-5 hours to play many of the big ones. I have learned how to play better through Harrington's book and I do fairly well. I just haven't adapted correctly to cash games. In tourneys I know I make mistakes but those mistakes just cost me my buyin and time played. NL Cash games I feel like I still make too many mistakes and it isn't profitable for me to play. I can probably hold my own but I still find myself unsure of what to do in many situations. Until I decide to truly study the ins and outs I'll stick to limit cash games and NL tourneys.

When I first started playing (after losing my original $50 buyin and then reading some books) I said to myself I would get 300BB to move up to 1/2 and keep moving up when i had 300BB for the next level. Well even when I got to a $600 bankroll, I didn't feel comfortable playing with $50 on the table. I just psychologically couldn't do it. My aversion to risk was just too great. I took shots here and there and lost money so I kept stepping down to .5/1. I then took some shots at the 2/4 Bad Beat Jackpot tables which were loose and played like .5/1. I have made money there but when I had losing sessions it just didn't bode well for my psyche. I have built a bankroll large enough to play much higher stakes but I'm just not ready. I've played 5/10 live but it was on a cruise where it was the only game and it played like .5/1. After being scared to risk that much money, a few hands into it I finally started feeling comfortable as I knew I wasn't playing out of my league. Play changes as you move up in stakes and different concepts apply. I am learning them as I go and applying new strategies as I learn them on forums and rereading books. The challenge is to continuously make the plays that statistically yield the best results over the long term . I hope I have what it takes to win in the bigger games. Only time will tell.

Oh and may the flop be with you ;)

I think the biggest difference in limits is between .5/1 and 1/2. 2/4 is exactly the same as 1/2 but maybe looser and less aggressive.

Then 3/6 ramps up the tightness and is basically the same as 5/10.

So - at least at Party you have 3 styles of limits

Less the 1/2 where 7BB/100 is certainly sustanable

1/2 and 2/4

3/6 and 5/10

Have not played above that . . sober.

Thanks Grinder.

While I have seen many more tighter tables at 1/2, I was actually quite surprised by how easy it is to find a good table at this level. Scouting 2/4 it doesn't look too difficult either. I'm currently 2.2BB/100 after 8000 hands at 1/2 and as long as I sustain that I'll jump to 2/4 around 20-30k hands. Good luck at the tables.

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  • NL = No Limit Holdem
  • PLO = Pot Limit Omaha
  • CP = Crazy Pineapple
  • TD = Triple Draw
  • UTG = Under the Gun (first to act)
  • MP = Middle Position
  • LP = Late Position
  • CO = CutOff (one before the button)

About me

  • I'm Scottwire
  • From NJ
  • Hi there. I started this blog mainly to keep track of how I'm doing playing poker as well as to vent, share my thoughts and feelings, and allow friends and family to follow along. Thanks to everyone following along whether I know you or not. About me - I am currently a web developer who is trying to become a successful Entrepreneur with my wife. We love to travel and are trying to become successful enough to do that as we please :) That's us in a nutshell.
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