Limit vs NL Holdem
Chipper asked in a comment if I prefer Limit over NL since Limit is mostly what I play.
I wouldn't say I enjoy limit over NL. I actually enjoy all forms of poker - Omaha, 7stud, Razz. I find them all mentally challenging which is why i love poker (the money's good too though!).
There are a few reasons I play limit over NL. One is that it's where I started and there are a lot more good books on limit than NL. So it was much easier for me to learn the concepts. It is a much more mechanical game and after many books and reading hand analyses in forums I feel like I have a good knowledge of the game. I've played NL cash games and done ok but I'm still not confident in my game. I have played .05/.10 up to .5/1 NL and other than the extremely small stakes where everyone sucks anyway, I haven't felt comfortable with a big stack at risk. In limit, the worst I lose at any one time is a Big Bet. I may compound a few in one hand, but that's easily made back. I have found that I do well at limit and can be a consistent winner over the long term from .5/1 to the occasional 2/4 (i've done ok overall but lost a couple buyins back to back so stopped playing confidently and stopped). Now I have finally made the move to 1/2 and after I am confident I am a winning player I will make the jump to 2/4.
Going along with the "I only lose a Big Bet if I make a mistake" line - I sometimes have a hard time concentrating while playing. I always seem to be watching tv or surfing the web or whatever else and I make some mistakes because of this. I'd much rather make a mistake in Limit than NL :) When I do immerse myself in poker I do play better though.
Chipper mentioned in a blog entry that he didn't like Party because it was hard to bluff and too many players saw the flop. Those games on Party are the games I love. I love multiway pots (preferably no more than 4-5 people). I find it much easier to know when I don't have the best hand and can get away from it easier. I have learned when to push small pot equity edges to build the pot.
I have stepped up levels before at limit and gotten knocked back down after taking my shot because I was having problems in tight games reading single opponents who were extremely aggressive. I still have a problem with playing weak-tight sometimes in fear of losing money but I'm getting better. Short handed play has helped a little with that but I haven't played it a whole lot. The games where I have been winning big lately have been with 2 or 3 semi or very loose (and sometimes aggressive) players at the table. Table selection is key. As I move up and find tighter tables I am still learning the nuances but so far so good.
I enjoy NL tournaments because they have a fixed buyin and then its just play your game and don't worry about losing money. I do fairly ok in tournaments and want to play more MTTs but its hard to commit the 4-5 hours to play many of the big ones. I have learned how to play better through Harrington's book and I do fairly well. I just haven't adapted correctly to cash games. In tourneys I know I make mistakes but those mistakes just cost me my buyin and time played. NL Cash games I feel like I still make too many mistakes and it isn't profitable for me to play. I can probably hold my own but I still find myself unsure of what to do in many situations. Until I decide to truly study the ins and outs I'll stick to limit cash games and NL tourneys.
When I first started playing (after losing my original $50 buyin and then reading some books) I said to myself I would get 300BB to move up to 1/2 and keep moving up when i had 300BB for the next level. Well even when I got to a $600 bankroll, I didn't feel comfortable playing with $50 on the table. I just psychologically couldn't do it. My aversion to risk was just too great. I took shots here and there and lost money so I kept stepping down to .5/1. I then took some shots at the 2/4 Bad Beat Jackpot tables which were loose and played like .5/1. I have made money there but when I had losing sessions it just didn't bode well for my psyche. I have built a bankroll large enough to play much higher stakes but I'm just not ready. I've played 5/10 live but it was on a cruise where it was the only game and it played like .5/1. After being scared to risk that much money, a few hands into it I finally started feeling comfortable as I knew I wasn't playing out of my league. Play changes as you move up in stakes and different concepts apply. I am learning them as I go and applying new strategies as I learn them on forums and rereading books. The challenge is to continuously make the plays that statistically yield the best results over the long term . I hope I have what it takes to win in the bigger games. Only time will tell.
Oh and may the flop be with you ;)
I wouldn't say I enjoy limit over NL. I actually enjoy all forms of poker - Omaha, 7stud, Razz. I find them all mentally challenging which is why i love poker (the money's good too though!).
There are a few reasons I play limit over NL. One is that it's where I started and there are a lot more good books on limit than NL. So it was much easier for me to learn the concepts. It is a much more mechanical game and after many books and reading hand analyses in forums I feel like I have a good knowledge of the game. I've played NL cash games and done ok but I'm still not confident in my game. I have played .05/.10 up to .5/1 NL and other than the extremely small stakes where everyone sucks anyway, I haven't felt comfortable with a big stack at risk. In limit, the worst I lose at any one time is a Big Bet. I may compound a few in one hand, but that's easily made back. I have found that I do well at limit and can be a consistent winner over the long term from .5/1 to the occasional 2/4 (i've done ok overall but lost a couple buyins back to back so stopped playing confidently and stopped). Now I have finally made the move to 1/2 and after I am confident I am a winning player I will make the jump to 2/4.
Going along with the "I only lose a Big Bet if I make a mistake" line - I sometimes have a hard time concentrating while playing. I always seem to be watching tv or surfing the web or whatever else and I make some mistakes because of this. I'd much rather make a mistake in Limit than NL :) When I do immerse myself in poker I do play better though.
Chipper mentioned in a blog entry that he didn't like Party because it was hard to bluff and too many players saw the flop. Those games on Party are the games I love. I love multiway pots (preferably no more than 4-5 people). I find it much easier to know when I don't have the best hand and can get away from it easier. I have learned when to push small pot equity edges to build the pot.
I have stepped up levels before at limit and gotten knocked back down after taking my shot because I was having problems in tight games reading single opponents who were extremely aggressive. I still have a problem with playing weak-tight sometimes in fear of losing money but I'm getting better. Short handed play has helped a little with that but I haven't played it a whole lot. The games where I have been winning big lately have been with 2 or 3 semi or very loose (and sometimes aggressive) players at the table. Table selection is key. As I move up and find tighter tables I am still learning the nuances but so far so good.
I enjoy NL tournaments because they have a fixed buyin and then its just play your game and don't worry about losing money. I do fairly ok in tournaments and want to play more MTTs but its hard to commit the 4-5 hours to play many of the big ones. I have learned how to play better through Harrington's book and I do fairly well. I just haven't adapted correctly to cash games. In tourneys I know I make mistakes but those mistakes just cost me my buyin and time played. NL Cash games I feel like I still make too many mistakes and it isn't profitable for me to play. I can probably hold my own but I still find myself unsure of what to do in many situations. Until I decide to truly study the ins and outs I'll stick to limit cash games and NL tourneys.
When I first started playing (after losing my original $50 buyin and then reading some books) I said to myself I would get 300BB to move up to 1/2 and keep moving up when i had 300BB for the next level. Well even when I got to a $600 bankroll, I didn't feel comfortable playing with $50 on the table. I just psychologically couldn't do it. My aversion to risk was just too great. I took shots here and there and lost money so I kept stepping down to .5/1. I then took some shots at the 2/4 Bad Beat Jackpot tables which were loose and played like .5/1. I have made money there but when I had losing sessions it just didn't bode well for my psyche. I have built a bankroll large enough to play much higher stakes but I'm just not ready. I've played 5/10 live but it was on a cruise where it was the only game and it played like .5/1. After being scared to risk that much money, a few hands into it I finally started feeling comfortable as I knew I wasn't playing out of my league. Play changes as you move up in stakes and different concepts apply. I am learning them as I go and applying new strategies as I learn them on forums and rereading books. The challenge is to continuously make the plays that statistically yield the best results over the long term . I hope I have what it takes to win in the bigger games. Only time will tell.
Oh and may the flop be with you ;)
I think the biggest difference in limits is between .5/1 and 1/2. 2/4 is exactly the same as 1/2 but maybe looser and less aggressive.
Then 3/6 ramps up the tightness and is basically the same as 5/10.
So - at least at Party you have 3 styles of limits
Less the 1/2 where 7BB/100 is certainly sustanable
1/2 and 2/4
3/6 and 5/10
Have not played above that . . sober.
Posted by Anonymous | 11:07 AM
Thanks Grinder.
While I have seen many more tighter tables at 1/2, I was actually quite surprised by how easy it is to find a good table at this level. Scouting 2/4 it doesn't look too difficult either. I'm currently 2.2BB/100 after 8000 hands at 1/2 and as long as I sustain that I'll jump to 2/4 around 20-30k hands. Good luck at the tables.
Posted by Scottwire | 8:30 PM